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Post by ZeldAClown on Nov 24, 2003 5:49:16 GMT -5
Rather then just have petty arguments about nothing, what say we start a real argument, one that will hopefully attract interest from guests. And the argument is:
Evolution or Creationism? Which is right?
I myself strongly stand by the theory of evolution. When I was 5, I believed in god, heaven and hell, Adam and Eve, the whole nine yards. However, later on I learned to open my eyes to the world of science, which gave me a different (and much more detailed) opinion of how we came to be. It's true that more and more of the Christian community are abandoning the creation theory, and the last I heard, the church has admitted that pretty much everything in the old testament is false anyway.
While it's true that science doesn't have all the answers, it has progressed to a stage where the creationists theory has taken allot of damage. It's only a matter of time before science can blow it out of the water completely.
To be frank, I think that 90% of all creationists are just plain ignorant. You have to be such a fool to blindly follow something without questioning it. I just don't buy that there is some 'almighty' being out there that controls 'everything'. Who created the universe because he 'said' so....and the people who believe this say that it's farfetched that we all descended from apes? HarHarHar! Tickle my funny bone and call me Suzan.
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Post by Rauru on Nov 25, 2003 17:26:49 GMT -5
Now I'm not one to say much about this topic, but I do have some opinion:
First, I do also believe in the theory about Evolution except that I believe that the world was created by God. I'm not really quite sure where everything came from, how it got started, and what it is used for, but to me everything has a purpose and a place.
Where it all started is beyond me, but it has to have some significant purpose or it would be here, unless maybe it's a decoration or somewhat.
Anyways, I know I don't really have an arugement, but those are my opinions whether anybody agress or not.
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Post by rocklord2004 on Nov 25, 2003 18:52:20 GMT -5
i will agree that a lot of christians are ignorant. but more than half of them have a strong faith. the thing that evolution lacks is a beginning for everything. if you think the big bang tells all about it then i have a question. where did all the stuff for the big bang come from. after that you would also have to believe that we all came from rocks. i would prefer to think that somebody spoke me into existance than that i came from a rock.( the whole speaking thing just sounds cooler). also please tell me everything you have found that disproves christianity. i guarantee i can find a flaw in any argument you throw at me on that subject. oh and dont try and ask me where things came from. thats the evolutionists job to try and find out origins. i already know god made everything in 6 days.
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Post by renewal on Nov 25, 2003 22:42:06 GMT -5
And that he rested on the 7th day, which is the Sabath Day.
I do not know a whole lot about on this subject, sorry. I will try and speak what I know when we get around to it.
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Post by ZeldAClown on Nov 26, 2003 17:59:46 GMT -5
We all came from rocks? Is that what you think the big bang theory is? What was there before? Well...what was there before god? And don't say that God has just 'always' been there...and if you do...well....then i'll just say that chemicals have always been there.
How the big bang was caused is still under hot debate. Some say it was caused by the mixture of two nebulae (probably mainly made up of hydrogen and nitrogen), which cumbusted and fused atoms together to form molecules....another theory states that the big band was caused the collaspe of the universe (that the big bang is a continous cycle).
What's all this rocks business? We didn't come from rocks! Rocks are mixture of molecules to form a compound in a solid state. But there are still both liquid and gas molecules out there you know! We must have come from a mixture of aquatic chemicals that formed biochemical, single celled organisms. How that happened, we are still trying to find out (you have to realise that this happend 1.5 billion years ago). The cells underwent mitosis (as they do) and eventually formed more complex organisims, as per the theory of evolution. They adapted to new environments as the earths climate changed.
What else? You want me to proove creation wrong? Well....that's a hard one....considering that science doesn't proove anything. What science does, is build up evidence for an argument or observation to the point where it would be unreasonable to assume that the theory isn't fact. Take gravity for example. Newton made an observation...he built up the theory...and later, we found the likely cause for gravity (mass and electromagnetics)...which I DO believe is accepted by everyone...is it not?
I do have a whole lot more to write...but i'll let you ponder this first rocklord.
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Post by rocklord2004 on Nov 28, 2003 3:46:52 GMT -5
apparently you dont remember the part about when all the molten rock go twater on it and micro-organisms began to grow. they then turned into complex organisms and then all the random little creaturs and beings we have on this earth. hence everything must have come from rocks. apparently everything you read tried to make it sound like a fancy way of saying that so you didnt realize it. also i say god was always there because the bible states he had no beggining and has no end. i choose to beleive this because of faith. evolution is also based alot on faith. its just a bunch of people who werent there trying to figure it out. how do you know the earth is billions of years old. one study showed that if the earth was really that old the moon would have flown off into space since its orbit is deteriorating. also evolution has been trying to disprove creation since its own creation. they have always failed because in order to disprove something you have to have proof. i just know that evolution doesnt work. mild adaptation does but changeing from one kind to another doesnt. a cat doesnt turn into a polar bear just because it gets colder.
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Post by ZeldAClown on Dec 1, 2003 5:49:27 GMT -5
You should get your information sorted out before you post rocklord.
You are referring to the theory that it was heat that triggered the first life to appear, and indeed, it is not only highly likely, but probable that the micro organisms were spawned in volcanic vents / geothermal heated lakes. but that doesn't mean that we are the direct desendant of rocks. Whoever told you this probably knows less about evolution then you do.
And as far as the age of the earth goes, it's impossible to determine an exact date. The oldest rocks on record can't come from any further back then the Pre-Cambrian era...which is a huge area to account for. But we can estimate it to be roughly 3-4 billion years old. The moon? Well...yes, you are quite right, the moons orbit is deteriorating by a few inches every year. But you have to understand, the moon isn't as old as the earth. The moon has a surprisingly similar composition as the earth, which suggests that the moon was once part of the earth. The lunar origins theory states that some time during the early life of the earth, a huge meteorite impacted the earth and separated it into two parts (which is in theory very possible). The smaller section formed an orbit around the earth (orbits are determined by mass and electro-magnetism) and is now commonly known as the moon.
Proof is a very hard thing to produce rocklord…can you yourself provide me with either proof or strong evidence that God did indeed create everything? If you could then I’d love to see it. And what adaptations are you talking about? Evolution simply is or isn’t, and any adaptations just supports my side of the argument.
Well...actually, it does. Not right away mind you, but over a period of many thousands of years. A species changes to suit its environment...that’s the whole point of what evolution actually is. For example, have you ever wondered why people who live in warmer/hot climates have naturally tanned or black skin? If their skin was white, then the sun would cause serious damage to the epidermis. A suntan is actually very bad for you in a medical sense.
Having darkened skin increases the body’s resistance to direct sunlight and UV radiation. So people in places like Somalia / India / Egypt and Mexico has developed a darker skin colour. It’s the mark of evolution. How else do you explain the differences in appearance?
Taking a step back…I would like to hear your explanation of why the universe is expanding (which it is).
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Post by rocklord2004 on Dec 1, 2003 21:38:19 GMT -5
two questions
1. have you or anybody seen a species change into something else(since evolution science seems to need proof for everything.) other than just changing color(the example you gave).
2. if the universe is expanding( which the universe is everything) what is it expanding into. it would have to be expanding into nothing and if i remember right that would be scientifically impossible. i would also like some proof on this one.
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Post by someone on Dec 2, 2003 0:59:50 GMT -5
who cares
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Post by Tigerclaw2099 on Dec 2, 2003 3:02:35 GMT -5
/\Obviously not you.... /\
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Post by ZeldAClown on Dec 2, 2003 5:45:30 GMT -5
okay then, well...1. Have I ever seen a species change into something else?
Well...the species is a big term to use dude. that implies have I seem every member of a species evolve? Well, in all truth...yes I have.
It's called the fossil record. A nice example of an organism evolving is the trilobites, or better yet, the ammonoids. Both species are extinct due to the mass extinctions at the PT and KT boundary. However, both show signs or rapid evolution, which is why they are really good zone fossils. Tracking the ammonites through sedimentary layers shows a wide varity of species that all fall under the same phylum. Some are very different, while some are ver simerlar...you'll most likely find that species undergoes change as you move up or down the geological collum. not sudden, over night change, but gradual. And paleoenvironmentalists can assertain that the changes in the ammonites are timed with changes in the environment at that time.
2. What is the universe expanding into?
Aw man...this is an area better explained by a astro-phycist or something. Well...from what I know of this area, the theory is that the universe is a loop. An infinate cycle. Dr. Stephen Hawking theorised this after suddying the quatum behaviour of space radiation, and creating the theory of 'Dark matter', and is of course...unprooveable. Unless we actually reach the end of the universe (which will NEVER happen if the speed of light is the absolute limit), we will never know. This is an unfair question that really has little bearing on the argument.
Now let me ask you:
1) Have you or anybody ever seem something just spring into existance for no apparent reason, that defies all attempts of explaination?
2) Where did god live before he made the universe/heaven/earth/hell and so on?
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Post by someone on Dec 2, 2003 23:24:41 GMT -5
i coudlnt agree with u more. i think some people are jus tstupid like myself here.
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Post by Excel on Dec 3, 2003 7:16:23 GMT -5
Haha...this is fun to read. Keep going guys! It's good to finally see some intelect on the forums.
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Post by Rauru on Dec 3, 2003 10:36:54 GMT -5
Yes it really is. Keep it up, I think I'm actually starting to learn something. LoL  |
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Post by rocklord2004 on Dec 3, 2003 15:35:55 GMT -5
1. no i havnt seen anything just spring into existence but i have faith that god spoke everything into being. also i can say that there is a god because im a living breathing miracle.
2. god was in nothing.(scientifically impossible i know) then my guess is that he got bored and made the universe. now the reason god can do this is that he is god and can do anything he wants.
also have you heard of the index fossil thing. you know where they tell how old the layers of the earth are by what fossils are there and how they tell how old the fossils are by what layer of the earth they are in. tell me how that should work.
off topic question. how old are you. you seem smart and i would like to know if you are older or younger than me. (with my luck you are probably younger and giving me a hard time explaining everything i beleive in. just dont take this statement wrong because i am extremely hard headed and wont change my views no matter what is said)
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